Tuesday, February 21, 2006

rule of thumb for call nerds

If you have to review a video frame by frame to see if a call is correct, then it's not a bad call. It might be incorrect, but it's a justifiable call if it's that close. Exception: if it's a non-contact violation (such as a travel) and you need that degree of granularity to show that the violation actually happened, then it's a pussy call. There is just no way that a player (who is, of course, also attempting to play ultimate besides being a ref) in real time can discern this.

That is all.


luke said...

as a lefty, i've just come to grips with the fact that x% of people just call travel when they get their marks broken. especially by a lefty: the pivot just somehow 'looks' different. i also like the 'call a travel after my massive shove moves you off your pivot foot.' that should be the 'and one' foul

Anonymous said...

I couldnt agree more with your Lefty insight. Being one, I am always amazed at the number of travel calls I get for no apparent reason. Funny thing is the most calls come from playing against college teams. How these players can be concentrating on my feet on the mark never ceases to amaze me! It seems to be happening a lot more in the last couple of years. After over 20 years of playing I must be walking all of a sudden!

The other thing that I have been seeing more of late is a travel call on a big back hand huck after a pivot. Isnt it virtually impossible to get off a big throw without using your established pivot foot as an anchor? I have been told my foot was moving when I throw! I have yet to see someone huck it very far with their pivot foot moving.

Good Post!

Master Hack

Anonymous said...

It is not only possible to get off a big throw without your pivot as an anchor, but it's easier.

On the pull, the "bowler kick" really helps the backhand pull a ton.

On the flick huck, a number of strong throwers (despite being travelers) actually slide their pivot foot int he opposite direction of their throw.

If you haven't seen it, you haven't been watching specifically to find it.

That being said, I agree with the original message of the original post.

luke said...

when you pivot from forehand fake to backhand, it's not uncommon to see people drag their pivot foot closer to their center of gravity immediately before pivoting. it makes the pivot quicker. on the huck, some folks drag their pivot foot fwd behind their lead leg, in kind of bowlers kick movement. i know that happens... the lefty thing is usually because when you set up force flick on on a lefty with the same basic body position as a righty, you are basically conceding the inside out backhand, ... where the righty steps 'out' and only gains a little, the lefty steps hugely accross... it's a little disconscerting for people who aren't really really paying attention

Anonymous said...

2 Points....

first anonymous, I was speaking specifically of backhands from a an established pivot position. the bowler kick is fine for pulls but won't cut it for that. You would be called for travelling everytime.

Luke, I totally agree with your assesment in the pivot. I was talking more about the point of release. I just think it is interesting that I have been called travelling more in the last two years than the previous 23. Is it that I am all of a sudden travelling more, or are these nit pick calls? When I mark I spend more time trying to block the disc and mark accordingly than watching somebodies feet. Not saying it is not possible to watch their feet, but you have to have pretty good peripheral vision.

Masters Hack

Anonymous said...


You're unstated assertion is that pivoting is a black and white skill- once you have it, you never lose it. This is like saying that once a basketball player learns good footwork, that they never have to work on it again. This does not make sense.

Maybe the reason that you are getting called for more travels is that you are traveling more. Perhaps convincing yourself that you don't travel has led you to work on good pivoting less...as the skills relax, so does the footwork.
When is the last time you saw video of one of these supposedly mistaken calls?


Anonymous said...


Thanks for stating my "unstated" assertion. The post was meant to be in the spirit of the original thread.

I play on a masters team that plays a lot of college teams in the Spring and Summer/early Fall due to lack of club teams. When we play those teams our team as a whole get a lot more travel calls against us. As we have discussed as a team, it is not that we are travelling more, but the philosophies of the team we are playing(in our opinion). All of a sudden we start playing in tournaments prior to the Fall series and the Fall series and magically we stop travelling???

So you are probably right, we travel for certain games but not others. As a lefty it seems I seem to get called more, and have people from the teams we are playing, that I know, tell me they were bad calls. That would be how I arrive at the conclusion that the calls are bad. Not that I am some "do no wrong" player who does not make mistakes as you seem to assert. But thanks for being so assertive!

Masters Hack

parinella said...

MH, it could be some of both. These kids probably mark more aggressively than their elders, so their actions might cause you all to have to pivot a little more and thus travel more. Certainly, if the opponent is a better defender, you have to employ more fakes and more effort to get open. So why wouldn't this be true for marking? Even if they're not more effective, it's a different marking style, one that might induce more travels.

And they probably do call it more tightly, the punks.

Where do you play? Interested in playing at Masters Easterns at Devens in early June?

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Thoughts on how yesterday's COTD applies to Parinella's original assertion?

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